Why Is Narcissistic Personality Disorder So Little Known?

[whatisnormal]

Wow...my life in a nutshell! This article really resonated with me, especially the part about having a child of my own now, knowing what it feels like to be the "mom" and understanding what that role is actually supposed to look like. Having that be such a stark contrast to what I have felt over the years from my own "mom" was an eye opening moment for me. I always seem to question myself, but there was no doubt in my mind once I had my son that the way my NM behaved then and now towards her children and grandchildren is chillingly unnatural and wrong. I do feel sad for her, because I fully believe her legacy will be that of sad, soulless shell, who walked the earth for however long, unable to feel anything real, and unaware that anything real even exists.

I can also recognize how the serving two masters played a role in my NM's marriage and family, since my NM's mom is a NM too. My NM's NM has never lost grip of the puppet strings, and since my dad's passing has clinched her fists around them even more tightly. In a way I think my NM chose my dad b/c he did not allow her NM to control or influence his decisions...I think she saw him almost even as a protective barrier between her NM and herself...in the end though, she just wasn't strong enough to chose my dad or her children over her NM. Her NM always came before any of us. So sad.

At this point, even if I wanted a relationship with my NM, I couldn't have one. So, NC wasn't so much a conclusion reached after much thoughtful deliberation, it was really the only bit of scrap left on the table for me. I refused to have my son or me take second chair to my NM's puppet master...yes, there is guilt because it was hardwired into my being at a very young age, however, I will accept the guilt over failing to protect my son from the horror. Hmmm. Wish my mom had done the same.

[Beth McHugh]

Hi Whatisnormal, glad you found the article enlightening and it is such a shame that most people spend almost half their life working out exactly what is wrong with their narcissistic parent. Unfortunately, some people never find out at all, but go through their lives serving and serving while becoming more frustrated and ultimately sick themselves.
As for the guilt, you will be able to work on that -- it is an essential part of recovery but achievable. Let me know if you reach a stumbling block on this or any other issue concerning your mother. Coming to grips with having a NM is one of life's hardest askes, but there is hope in getting past the pain. Best wishes, Beth

[whatisnormal]

Thanks very much for your comments, Beth. Since my last post, I have continued to remain NC with my NM and surprisingly, it doesn't bother me. I actually quite simply just feel better. I think speaking to her on a weekly basis was more of a habit than anything else...I never really got anything from her, though dealing with her took plenty out of me. I get that most of my life I have just been spinning my wheels trying to make our relationship "normal". Calling it what it really is has been liberating.

I am really trying to work on the guilt. Really trying. I "think" I am making progress one hurdle at a time. Once I make it over one successfully, it seems to snowball, so I feel I am in a fairly good place. Making it through my son's bday was a big hurdle...aside from my NM and NGM's predictable voice messages, everything worked out ok, and I am already long over any attempts by mainly my NGM to make me feel guilty about her not getting to see him on his bday.

What makes it a bit tricky at this point, I think, is learning to distinguish what I should, as a normal course of being human, feel guilty about, and what is possibly just my oversensitivity at having had a NM and NGM coaching me to feel guilty about EVERYTHING. Seems like most things "social" I have had to learn on my own...some things have taken me longer to grasp than others. I just have to thank you for all of your articles and for the responses from so many that your words have generated. It has made the biggest difference in steering me towards a healthier place. I think I can actually say that I am happy! And why shouldn't I be? Maybe I don't have a normal mom, but having gone NC, I also don't have a NM or NGM. Not having a NM or NGM leaves plenty of room for healthy relationships to enter my life, and that gives me hope.

To anyone else out there reading this...there is hope!

[Grizelda]

Your posts always resonate with me so much, whatisnormal! Lately I've been thinking so much about the guilt associated with my NC. Today I was feeling a bit differently and I hope this is the beginning of a new "acceptance" of NC. Honest to God, I'm terrified of my mother.

So even if I'm completely wrong and she doesn't have NPD and I'm just too sensitive or I'm delusional or I can't handle what any other daughter COULD handle from her, in my shoes, why would that matter if I'm still terrified of her? In the most innocuous of eye-rolls or blank responses to my comments, she can strike me down into a pit of misery and upset and anger and, yes, some sort of weird terror.

I *think* it may be some sort of PTSD, related to how often she would slap me when I disobeyed or even annoyed her. She hasn't slapped me since I was 12 years old! And truthfully, I do not believe she would do it again. But the instinctive fear and hurt feelings - destroyed feelings, really - it's all still there.

And I have remained that same little girl, trying to do better, trying to be finally "good enough" -- and so the blank responses and constant rejections from my mother hurt more than other people can probably realize. My reactions have ALWAYS been that of a little girl still trying to get praise and love from a mother who didn't love her. That kind of stuff runs deep - and I can't really "get over it." (Though I think I finally see what Beth was talking about all along -- you HAVE to accept that your mother doesn't love you - and never will.)

But before Beth and others on the 'net and Sam Vaknin's book (and other books), I didn't realize that I had the "right" to move on and stop having my soul ripped apart on an almost-daily basis. That discovery is one of the best things that ever happened to me!

I wish you all the best in your battle with guilt - and I hope I really have a new epiphany (and I hope you have even better ones!) My new mantra in dealing with this is now: I have the RIGHT to feel SAFE. And I shouldn't have to feel guilty about finding a way to make myself safe, after struggling for over 50 years as a victim in a demonic relationship with my mother.

[holly]

I think most peoeple are pretty flexible and NPDs use this. My ageing mother (who has never shown the slightets interest in my children - you have to accept that and hope the other grandparents are ok) lives a thousand miles away with my dad. She has always moved a lot. My siblings and I beleive it is becasue she creates trouble and needs to find new people as audience for her drama of herself. However, we are now worried about my lovely father who has stood by this woman for so long. She tell us he owes his life to her and we suppose he has been brainwashed over the years of being her 'audience' into feelign he is worthless and can't get away and closer to us and clinical care for him. I feel he has become incapapable of making good choices for himself. She tells us she is sick of him and he is useless arond the house etc etc (he is over 80) but we know her and her lies/nastiness and are very worried for him. Curioulsy, I wonder what will happen to her when her main audience and sorce of attention and agreement to her bizarre fantasies is gone? None of us ever questin her becasue she gets furious and nasty so we have learnt not to question even her wildest fligths of fantasy eg she was a nurse many years ago for a few years and says a surgeon let her do a cholecystectomy becasue she was such a brilliant nurse. For my husband she is a hilarious source of laughs but for family it is harder.

[Harobed]

Hi, Everybody,

I've been lurking on the "Dealing-with-a-Narcissistic-mother" forum off and on for about a year now. It's really wonderful! I've only posted there a couple of times a long time ago, but those participating were all so generous.

I just had to say something that has been bugging me a long long time! Why, why why doesn't somebody write a book about how to go NC with an elderly narcissist when you are concerned that they get the good eldercare they need???!!!

It seems like I'm asking for information that cannot exist, since to go NC means to leave the person to their own devices, but I am so sick of reading all the books on the market who give detailed advice on eldercare for people who have decided to care for their parents, monsters or not. Some of these books acknowledge that some parents are so destructive that it would be healthier to stay away from them, but then they say, very sacrimoniously, what a good person you are for not abandoning your elderly parent and sticking it out anyway.

RRRRRAAAAAARRRRRRR!!!!!!

Even books about narcissism have tips and tips and tips on how to handle the narcissist if you choose to stay around. And yet, they all emphasize that it is your choice, and your right to leave or to stay.

The first and most brutally honest and wonderful book about going NC I ever read was Beverly Engel's book Divorcing A Parent. And though I haven't read her Power of Apology book, I feel like she renigged and abandoned me by making nice with her own mother again, once she had divorced her.

I want to know for sure that my NM is safe and secure, with good care and comfortable living surroundings, but I don't want to be her care provider. I WANT TO BE FREE!!!!! I emotionally divorced her at 16 (having promised myself at the age of 2 that I would someday escape her for good). I physically divorced her at 20, when my father left her and I had a place to stay when I was out of college for the holidays. From then on I have been NC off and on, sometimes with periods of contact, but very limited, on pseudo-good terms. I am now 53, and though my mother did a lot of loving things in my childhood, the cruelty and domination and soul rape she regularly laid on me made my childhood much more miserable than it had to be, with an adulthood that has been much harder for me than it ever had to be. I've read that women in their 50's are at a stage where they are able to have a new renaissance, and finally fulfill potential that they were struggling to clear the difficult issues away for. But those same books about female mid-life potential mostly fail to mention aging parents and THEIR need to be taken care of now. THIS REALLY MAKES ME SSSSOOOOO ANGRY! When is it my turn?????!!! I did not escape the dungeon just to go crawling back into it because my personality disordered mother now needs a slave to make sure she has someone to treat subhumanly and do her bidding, even if they are doing it because they want what is best for her, and at their own expense.

I could just cry and scream with frustration right now! When do I get to live my life???!!! Somebody write a book about the resources available to ACONs who refuse to creep back into the spiders' web and yet still want to know their mother is alright????!!!! Where is THAT book???!!!

If I could win the lottery and pay for an eldercare manager for my mother, and stay OUT of my mother's eldercare affairs, I would. I'd even pay my mother's expenses in elder housing. I just wouldn't want to be available to hear her ragging on her poor helpers arranged by the manager, etc., etc., etc.. And if she fired them all, I'd tell her she was now a ward of the state. I would be willing to let a professional guardian take her over. I have already refused to accept her Power of Attorney, and will never accept any legal obligation for her. Why doesn't someone write a book about the legal rights of the ACON who does not want to take over her mother's care and yet does not want to be accused of elder abandonment by the police??? And if I don't win the lottery (HA!), what's going to happen to my mother if I refuse to put up with her at all?! I don't even want to be on the phone giving her advice (I live 1,000 miles away), because it fouls up my life to even try being a counselor or advice-giver on the phone. And I resent the time of my own that I do research to give her helpful information.

I found out recently that a young man who had been working like a son to help her for the last several years, doing incredible things for her, finally gave up on her because she turned on him. Does she really think that means I'm going to jump into the breach???!!! Like H##!!

Boy, such a long Post!!!

I almost forgot to mention my single most reliable resource - Prayer! If I can just trust God to take care of her and pray for her well-being and my freedom, maybe I can live my life joyfully and still be sure she is in good hands.

I don't know what I expect anyone to say in response to this tirade of mine, but I just had to get it off my chest and hear some encouraging words from those who know where I'm coming from.

Deborah (Harobed) backwards - came up with that when I was ten!

[holly]

Wow, yes, my sister and I are in our early 50s and it took us this long to realise what was wrong and finally be able to say - No I do not love my mother - and that is OK. No - we did not have a normal healthy warm childhood and that is Ok it does not make us crazy. But it did take a long time to deal with some of the crappy behaviours and ways of thinking we had taken on board. Like Harobed, my sister and I knew from very early on that something was alarmingly amiss but it took years to sort out what it meant for us. Like Harobed, once my Dad has passed on, I do not want anything more to do with her even though I can see she really has a limited concept of reality and values and potential and so on and this makes her behave in such a shitty way. I can accpet she is terrified of reality for some reason and has to create a bizarre fantasy wolrd (included a truly strange take on sex and sexuality) in which she is the glorious star. I am just tired of it all now and allow myself to get angry now and sad for the little girl inside that I had not cared for either until later in life. NM wants her ashes scatterd on her home town harbour. She would rather cut her wrists than do that for me or my sister or even Dad, so I am not going to touch her stupid ashes. It doesn't seem fair that they can spit on their responsibility to their children and yet those children be responsible for them in the end.

[Colorado33]

I am 57 years old and finally I have answers. I started searching online and started reading everything that I could about mental disorders and found that I have a NM. In fact it is a severe case. She is getting close to 78 years old and is getting way worse. July 14th I made the decision to stop contact with her when she demanded that I get treatment for my mental health disorder. She gave me a couple of weeks and if I didn't get the treatment for bi-polarism then she would changes the handling of her estate. I do not have a mental disorder. I had enough and never responded and she took me off her estate as a Trustee. Now the golden boys can deal with her because I am through. I have never felt happier and more free than I do now. Done! The abuse started when I was a child and thankfully Dad was there to buffer the physical and emotional blows. He passed in 2007 and all hell has broken out since. She started giving things away to the golden boys and when I mention "hey what about me" I was told that my sister-in-law treated her better than I ever did and that they gave me too much when I was younger and she was not going to be fair and that is tough for you kid. Devastation is not the word for it. So she drew me (the scapegoat) back in and she was actually decent and had me involved some with her business but not all of course. They are very secretive that is for sure. Then this last bought was the end for me. She send me a birthday card and money for my birthday and she got a plain thank you note back. Then she tried to draw me in again only goes to the husband and ask him to come visit and bring me and my step-daughter so we can visit my 2nd cousin (that never said a word to me 8 years ago) oh and by the way she tells my husband that she needs her television fixed.They are good at getting you to do this and that for them but then rolls her eyes when my husband talks. Who knows what that is all about. Well guess what .......we didn't go. Nope. Not going to Thanksgiving either and this has her furious and going out of town for Christmas and I told my son to let her know that if she and my brother gives us presents for Christmas I am giving them to charity. My son has no money so he won't get us anything anyway. I am done with being showered with STUFF and feeling uncomfortable at Christmas because NM and brother and sister-in-law do not talk to me. What I wanted was love and I won't get it from her and I know that. It no longer matters to me anymore. I have surround myself with great friends and dad's side of the family and a supportive husband. Oh by the way Dad was the buffer and the nicest man. I don't know how the man lived with him. He should be allowed Sainthood.

[whatisnormal]

COLORADO, your last line struck a chord with me...I have found myself saying that time and time again when I learn something new about my NM or put different pieces of the puzzle together by remembering things from the past, observing things in the present, etc. I have said it out loud to my husband and brother...my dad must have been a saint to have put up with my NM (he passed in 2004). I do recognize that there has to be an inherent flaw in the person who chooses to marry a N in the first place, however, my dad really was a good man, and did not take my NM's crap. They fought loud and often. Maybe that was a flaw too, but had he ever actually gone through with divorce, I would have lost out big time as chances are I would have lived w/ her, and possibly her NM. I count my blessings that he actually stuck it out. He was my hero in every sense of the word, and in my opinion, the only reason I made it out somewhat in tact.

I'm 38 years old and really only started to figure out exactly what this "thing" was several months ago after much reading and research. I've been NC w/ my NM for about 7 months now. The very first bits of time were really very sweet, kind of like a vacation from the drama. It felt very nice just to "get away" from her in my mind. However, especially now that the holidays are upon us, and as her family members are apparently being told that I am this and that, it is beginning to feel a bit more stressful. I received an email from my uncle (my NM's bro) a couple of weeks back, which stated that he had "heard" about my attitude lately and was very disappointed in me, that my attitude was unacceptable to him and he was uncomfortable remaining in email contact with me while I wasn't speaking to my NM or NGM. At first I thought, ok, I can understand his position, this is his sister and mom. But the more I thought about his approach, how he blasted my character without even asking for my version of anything, the more it made me angry. I wrote several responses to him, but never sent one of them. I finally just accepted the fact that he is his NM's son, so the chances of him being normal enough to even hear and understand my side of the story are slim. It was still hurtful and upsetting, but when I put it into perspective that these comments were coming from someone who was attacking my character without taking the time or effort to even try to get the facts (reacted to his NM's sob story on impulse?), someone who himself has been married and divorced 4 times (interpersonal relationship issues?), has no children of his own (has no real relevant experience to draw from when speaking of how the parent/child relationship should look)...when I took all of these things into account, it did lessen the sting of his comments. The guilt though, is still there. Because it's tough to not let the words, no matter how invalid you can reasonably see them to be, it's tough not to let them get into your psyche even just a little bit. And you begin to question yourself all over again. Of course, then I think again about my character assassination going on at the hands of my NM and NGM, and it re-enforces the fact to me that they aren't very maternal gals. I cannot imagine talking so negatively to anyone about my own child...whether he was speaking to me or not, I would probably still think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I do have to say, my uncle made our decision for Thanksgiving and Christmas a lot easier. There's really no way I could show my face on that side of the family now that I know that such trash is being talked about me. I have to figure if they truly know their sister and mother that they may at least suspect my reasons for going NC are valid. If they are unable to see this, then they are blind to the narcissism and any efforts to defend myself would be in vain. I also discovered while I was playing my uncle's email over and over in my mind, that in order to defend myself, it would require that I talk negatively about my own mother to her family. It's one thing to get things off my chest in a forum of strangers who are going through a similar thing...quite another to think about opening up to friends and family members who maybe don't even have the slightest clue that the smiles and seemingly outward happiness has been fake all these years. I have absolutely no desire to talk about my NM negatively to her friends and family members. I do not wish bad things for her...on the contrary, I really do wish great things for her. I always have...it's just that at this point, I am too tired and wounded to be the one to facilitate it. All I want is peace for myself and my family.

HAROBED, I too struggle with my responsibilities to an aging parent, both morally and legally. It breaks my heart to think of anyone, much less someone who is at least by blood my mother, living the way she does, suffering so much on the inside and on the outside trying to make every one think she has everything together. She doesn't respect her diabetes and her finances are a mess. She is addicted to shopping and is a sitting duck to every infomercial on the planet. She's impulsive and lacks any sort of will power, personal responsibility or accountability. She feels entitled and simultaneously shat upon. The only thing I can really tell myself to ease my conscience is that I have already gone above and beyond what a normal person would do to try to assist her. I counseled her financially and I negotiated and paid her debts to give her a clean slate. I tried very hard to get her to take her diabetes seriously. I am a pretty determined person...I don't give up easily. But, being on the other side of my efforts now and seeing how she has discarded them as though they were nothing, it lets me know that no matter what efforts I may ever make now or in the future to help her, she would manipulate and lie her way out of doing what is best for herself. She is her own worst enemy, and I cannot change that. I cannot save her from herself. That does not make me a bad person, it makes me mortal.

I can say that even though we won't be going over to my NM's side of the family for the holidays, it will be stressful, as it will be my first holiday being NC. We will be going into the town where she lives, and where they all will be celebrating just a mere 5-10 minutes from my dad's side of the family. Will it be awkward? Yes. But that's what I have been dealt and I have to accept it. It's so odd because in my mind, I am still having that back and fourth discussion with myself on sending Christmas cards or not to that side of the family. Failing to send them will be one more weapon in their arsenel against me, that is in the court of public opinion where their family and friends are concerned. I'm the ungrateful daughter who was given everything (on credit cards which I grew up and had to pay off) and just dumped her poor widowed mom and grandmother, old and frail as they are. Let me tell you something, my NGM is quite scrappy, and both she and my NM put on the poor victim routine better than anyone I have ever seen. It's so pitiful even I want to slap myself at times for having gone NC.

I haven't written on here in a while...I guess that means for a while at least I was doing ok...but things are heating up now, and the holidays just add another layer of stress. It's nice to have this safe place to fall when I need to. I wish you all luck and strength as you go forward.

[Colorado33]

Hello whatisnormal.
I am having the same struggle with the Christmas card so I decided to give it some time and go with my heart. My hubbys birthday is next week and if she ignores him then the answer will be easy. The man has always been at her beck and call until July of this year and that is when the NC decision was made by me and I requested that he support me and not allow her to go around me. He agreed. He does not understand all that I have been through. He has never had to deal with people with NPD. He holds thigs in and shrugs it off. She was showing signs of turing him into a scapegoat too so I will have to give this one more time.
I have an uncle that keeps telling me "she's your mother, make nice". It is Dad's brother. I just tell him that I can't and that he has no idea what I have been through in my life and that the perfect family portrait was a FRAUD... and far from perfect. We were talkuing about spending Thanksgiving 2010 with them in Nebrasks but he is having second thoughts...does not want to get in the middle of it. I understand. So we will go somewhere for thanksgiving and Christmas but not to her house. I am done getting "stuff" from her. Stuff like ..clothes that never fit because she says I will lose weight and then I can wear it Stuff I will never use. Sometimes I think she just goes through the motions of givngf ups stuff because she is trying to be the good daughter. Her father was N too...most definately would tease me to tears and then laugh his ass off about it.... and you could hear a pin drop at the table..the silence was deafening...all eyes on me. They love to prey on the weaknessess of others. I was afraid of him too.
Recently I had H1N1 and told my son how awful I felt...cold..very cold was his reaction like it was no big deal. This hurt I have to say. He and the other golden child act just like her. I guess time to keep his contact to a bare miminum. He told me about 6 months ago that he could not understand why he was being so mean to people....he will figure it out someday I hope...he won't believe me now. Once she passes I am going to give him my books on NPD and tell him if he wants to know why me and NM didn't get along...read. At least he realizes that there is a problem. I went through the same thing. I didn't raise him under abuse and the N way. He knows the difference. I wised up I hope he does too.
So the doctor says that he is proud of me. He said that it is amazing to see someone go through what I have been through and drop weight, get some health issues under control to the point of almost getting off a couple meds. He says that I need to do what is best for me and I told him NC is what is best for me.
I like to save and remember things that have validation in my life...so I leave you with...I am living my life like Frankie said it "My Way" and living it line Bon Jovi sings it "It's My Life".