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Although narcissists only comprise a relatively small proportion of the population they can do enormous harm to those they have power over -- especially their children.

However, there is a subgroup whereby a sadistic component accompanies the narcissism. Fortunately, this comprises a much smaller sub group but the effect of the damage is significantaly higher.

You can read more about this subgroup http://mental-health.families.com/blog/ ... narcissism

Best wishes,
Beth

Hi Listers,
As an addition to the above, I am dealing with an increasing amount of clients who have suffered from haviing a parent or older sibling with narcissistic personality disorder with sadistic tendencies.
This is a subgroup of NPD but the effects on others are more severe. This subgroup has even more detrimental effects on their victims, but the way out is still to identify false beliefs about yourself that these people have implanted, often starting in toddlerhood, and help is available.

Best wishes,

Beth

That whole article directly fits my mom..verbatim. The emails I've gotten that display it for everyone to see would make your hair curl.

For more articles on Sadistic Narcissism, you can read Margo's story back on the main website under Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Margo' story is a relatively mild account of the workings of the mind of a sadistic narcissist, but does track the issue from its initial beginnings in childhood and provides a longitudinal study of this form of narcissism.
There will be more stories on Margo as she ages, and the disorder deepens as she begins to lose control over those she has dominated for decades.

Hi Beth, I'm not able to find the story about Margo, but am interested in learning more about the sadistic aspect of narcissism. Until recently, I described my mother as being 'difficult', 'temperamental', with a bit of a 'mean streak' at times. When I was a child, I would periodically lose my temper with her so badly that I'd be in screaming hysterics for hours -- but only now, I recall that she was the one who actually instigated those tantrums. She seemed to relish my rage. I'd beg to be left alone, but she would refuse, insisting that it was 'for my own safety' that she not leave me alone. And she'd just watch (and sometimes smile and laugh, saying I was being silly or whatever). I never threatened her physically or otherwise, but I've always had rage filled dreams, where I'm screaming at her, and smashing her into a wall.
When I was about 11 or 12, she had a colleague/friend who was very unstable and desperately needed professional help (but no one seemed to know it). This woman substitute taught at my school for a brief period, and would be very clingy to me, a 6th grader. She also cursed like a sailor, and kept porn around her house for my brother and me to find (nothing weird about that, right? lol). When I told my mother about the porn, she dismissed it completely and told me I should just ignore it and do my homework (like THAT would really happen). This lady's behavior at school really started to make me uncomfortable and embarassed, and I mentioned it to my mother. She blew up at me, saying something along the lines of how my character was weak, and I should be more accepting, and "how dare I" blah blah blah. I felt horribly guilty and ashamed -- and of course, regretted ever speaking up about it.
After a few months, this friend of my mother's attempted suicide. She didn't succeed in killing herself, but she suffered permanent brain damage, and was pretty much in a vegetative state for the next 30 years. When my mother heard what had happened, she accused me of being one of the people in her life that drove her to do what she did. This guilt stayed with me probably for at least 20 or more years, until I finally realized that I WAS THE CHILD, and she should have protected ME. (Also, she did absolutely nothing, as a "friend" to this lady, by ignoring all the red flags.)
Would these things qualify as "sadistic"? It's hard for me to determine.
My mother is now in her mid 80's, with dementia, and I'm responsible for her care. This has not been easy by any stretch. You advise, in "Defending Yourself Against the Aging Narcissist", in tip #5, to "...change your mindset to accept sick behavior (abuse) as compared to bad behavior..." I have to disagree this strategy. I would recommend to others, based on my own experience, NOT to continue to accept abuse, no matter how you reframe it in your mind. I've continued to accept varying levels of abuse, and personally, it feels like I'm betraying MYSELF every time I allow it to happen.

looloo wrote:Hi Beth, I'm not able to find the story about Margo, but am interested in learning more about the sadistic aspect of narcissism. Until recently, I described my mother as being 'difficult', 'temperamental', with a bit of a 'mean streak' at times. When I was a child, I would periodically lose my temper with her so badly that I'd be in screaming hysterics for hours -- but only now, I recall that she was the one who actually instigated those tantrums. She seemed to relish my rage. I'd beg to be left alone, but she would refuse, insisting that it was 'for my own safety' that she not leave me alone. And she'd just watch (and sometimes smile and laugh, saying I was being silly or whatever). I never threatened her physically or otherwise, but I've always had rage filled dreams, where I'm screaming at her, and smashing her into a wall.
When I was about 11 or 12, she had a colleague/friend who was very unstable and desperately needed professional help (but no one seemed to know it). This woman substitute taught at my school for a brief period, and would be very clingy to me, a 6th grader. She also cursed like a sailor, and kept porn around her house for my brother and me to find (nothing weird about that, right? lol). When I told my mother about the porn, she dismissed it completely and told me I should just ignore it and do my homework (like THAT would really happen). This lady's behavior at school really started to make me uncomfortable and embarassed, and I mentioned it to my mother. She blew up at me, saying something along the lines of how my character was weak, and I should be more accepting, and "how dare I" blah blah blah. I felt horribly guilty and ashamed -- and of course, regretted ever speaking up about it.
After a few months, this friend of my mother's attempted suicide. She didn't succeed in killing herself, but she suffered permanent brain damage, and was pretty much in a vegetative state for the next 30 years. When my mother heard what had happened, she accused me of being one of the people in her life that drove her to do what she did. This guilt stayed with me probably for at least 20 or more years, until I finally realized that I WAS THE CHILD, and she should have protected ME. (Also, she did absolutely nothing, as a "friend" to this lady, by ignoring all the red flags.)
Would these things qualify as "sadistic"? It's hard for me to determine.
My mother is now in her mid 80's, with dementia, and I'm responsible for her care. This has not been easy by any stretch. You advise, in "Defending Yourself Against the Aging Narcissist", in tip #5, to "...change your mindset to accept sick behavior (abuse) as compared to bad behavior..." I have to disagree this strategy. I would recommend to others, based on my own experience, NOT to continue to accept abuse, no matter how you reframe it in your mind. I've continued to accept varying levels of abuse, and personally, it feels like I'm betraying MYSELF every time I allow it to happen.

Hi Looloo,
There are four stories on sadistic narcissism concerning Margo -- they are under the heading of Narcissistic Personality Disorder so if you click on that and scroll down you'll find them. From what you stated above, your mother doesn't seem to fall into the sadistic category but then, I have only heard a fraction of your story so I can't say for sure. However, what your mother has done is make you (as a child) responsible for things you are not responsible for and one of those things is the attempted suicide of the friend. That is a terrible accusation to place on a child and it is understandable that you carried this guilt for so long. I hope you have come to terms with it and can now see it as what I call "False Guilt". Narcissists are particularly good at spraying false guilt around at anyone and everyone -- as long as they come out looking good. This is what one of the many things your mother has done to you. She would also have not taught you to have boundaries -- in fact she would have not introduced the concept of personal boundaries to you in order for her to more easily manipulate you.

Just to clarify your point about accepting abuse -- No! One of the first things I teach clients is to set healthy boundaries with their NPD parent if they wish to continue to have contact with them. I think where the message may have got mixed is that once you learn to understand NPD, it is possible to see it as an illness rather than a personal attack or dislike of the adult child. Many adult children grow up with the belief they are not good enough and have to do more and more to perform to get this love they crave. Hence they are open to abuse. However, in teaching clients that they are dealing with an illness rather than what looks on the surface like a personal vendetta helps the adult child to see that it is not about them, it is about the mentally ill parent. This is when real improvement can begin.

As you are caring for your aging mother you will know that despite the dementia, the narcissism increases with age. You have a heavy load to bear and I hope you have people who can take some of the load. I don't know if you have any therapy surrounding having an NPD mother, but I'm hoping that you are not holding out for recognition for begin the wonderful daughter you are. This is another stumbling block for many adult children of NPDs. And there can be issues to deal with when your mother eventually passes, as any unresolved feelings of being unheard and unloved with surface. All this is normal but you need to be prepared for it. It is much harder to let go of a "difficult" parent than one with whom you had a wonderful relationship, as odd as that may sound. There are happy memories with the latter, but few with the former to sustain you. You are doing a great job in caring for your mother given that she has provided you with so little. If you need help please in dealing with your mother you can always contact me through the website or book a session if you think that would help. And definitely, no abuse !

Best wishes,

Beth