no contact w/ father & brother

[David L]

Thank you Dr. McHugh for having this forum and the articles you have written concerning NPD. I recently discovered the forum and the articles, and have appreciated the guidance and the helpful awareness that I am not alone.

I had no idea what NPD was until a counselor suggested the label/diagnosis for my father. My mother died several years ago and my father, while being publicly commandeering and in control during her illness, was extremely emotionally needy in private with myself and others in our immediate family, my brother and his wife. This continued and increased after my mother's death and my father begin to spend more and more time with my brother's family. During the first holiday after my mother's death, my brother came home unexpectedly one day and discovered my father and his wife talking, kissing and embracing passionately. During the subsequent weeks and months, as you can imagine, all hell broke loose and any sense of biological family cohesiveness or support completely disintegrated and has never been restored. My father's response was vehement denial that anything passionate or romantic was occurring. It was only the later confession of my brother's wife that they were indeed having an affair, that the truth came out. I sought out a counselor because I was alone, living in a new city and needed someone to talk to. She suggested the NPD term for my father and pointed me to some helpful books on the topic. As I read about the disorder and other people's experiences with NPD parents, as well as continuing with counseling, many conflicts and difficulties I had experienced with my father and my own personal low self-esteem during childhood and on into adulthood suddenly became more clear and understandable from the point of being a child of a narcissistic parent.

I can't even begin to describe and explain all that has happened. My father remarried and is still alive, but his health is deteriorating. My brother, who I bonded with quite closely after the revelation of my father's affair with his wife, has brought his own issues of self-absorption into the milieu. For lack of better terms, I will describe him as a serial "monogamist" but I have found out over the course of time that his seemingly monogamist affairs, that usually last 1-2 years, are being undermined by affairs with other women on the side. I only found out after his wife's and my father's affair was discovered, that my brother had been involved with other women during his marriage. As you can imagine, my brother and wife are divorced and it was and still is an ugly interface. For several years after the divorce, I was my brother's crying towel, as he broke up with one woman after the next and went through periods of extreme anxiety and depression, that quickly disappeared when he started dating a new woman. The crying towel no longer happens since I put a stop to it after I saw the pattern and realized that it is never reciprocated for my life.

There is just too much to write and so many emotions. A couple months ago, I told both my brother and my father I did not want to interact or communicate with either one of them, unless it was an emergency. There were incidents that precipitated this. My closest friend and the only friend who has offered any sort of attention to the dysfunctional mess of my family, moved half-way across the country and I suddenly feel completely isolated and alone with the neediness of both my father and brother. My initial response and reaction was panic and I think that is part of the reason I have pushed my father and brother away. My brother also approached me with another female relationship situation that appears to have the potential to jeopardize his job position. I just couldn't deal with him and being a crying towel again when I was already feeling so alone myself. I have not spoken with my father for over three months, my brother for two months. The conflicting emotions and feelings are intense. I have a psychotherapist who I have seen consistently during the last few years and I am planning to start visits again since the isolation with all of these issues feels overwhelming.

I appreciate the articles you have written because they deal with the feelings of rage and forgiveness...I still struggle with both of these tremendously. Friends, and even my closest friend who moved, do not seem to grasp the intensity and depth of how this has affected my life and has the potential to continue affecting it unless I am diligent about taking care of myself emotionally, spiritually and physically. I have often found myself saying, I can't do this alone, in regards to interacting with my ailing narcissistic father and self-absorbed brother. A close, understanding, non-judgmental friend seems such a necessity right now but nowhere to be found. I am signing up for yoga and meditation classes because these have been helpful in the past and I feel they could be key for helping me, with or without a close friend.

Thank you for having this forum. It helps to write about my situation and it helps me feel less isolated to hear other people's stories and your responses.

David

[Beth McHugh]

Thank you Dr. McHugh for having this forum and the articles you have written concerning NPD. I recently discovered the forum and the articles, and have appreciated the guidance and the helpful awareness that I am not alone.

I had no idea what NPD was until about 13 years ago a counselor suggested the label/diagnosis for my father. My mother died in May 2001 and my father, while being publicly commandeering and in control during her illness, was extremely emotionally needy in private with myself and others in our immediate family, my brother and his wife. This continued and increased after my mother's death and my father begin to spend more and more time with my brother's family. During the holidays of 2001 my brother came home unexpectedly one day and discovered my father and his wife talking, kissing and embracing passionately. During the subsequent weeks and months, as you can imagine, all hell broke loose and any sense of biological family cohesiveness or support completely disintegrated and has never been restored. My father's response was vehement denial that anything passionate or romantic was occurring. It was only the later confession of my brother's wife that they were indeed having an affair, that the truth came out. I sought out a counselor because I was alone(I was and still am a single gay man), living in a new city and needed someone to talk to. She suggested the NPD term for my father and pointed me to some helpful books on the topic. As I read about the disorder and other people's experiences with NPD parents, as well as continuing with counseling, many conflicts and difficulties I had experienced with my father and my own personal low self-esteem during childhood and on into adulthood suddenly became more clear and understandable from the point of being a child of a narcissistic parent.

I can't even begin to describe and explain all that has happened in the last 13 years. My father remarried and is still alive, but his health is deteriorating and he has been diagnosed with Parkinsons(as a side note, my father is a much admired and idolized former successful coach and high school administrator in a small, rural midwest town). My brother, who I bonded with quite closely after the revelation of my father's affair with his wife, has brought his own issues of self-absorption into the milieu. For lack of better terms, I will describe him as a serial "monogamist" but I have found out over the course of time that his seemingly monogamist affairs, that usually last 1-2 years, are being undermined by affairs with other women on the side. I only found out after his wife's and my father's affair was discovered, that my brother had been involved with at least two women during his marriage before all of this other drama began. As you can imagine, my brother and wife are divorced and it was and still is an ugly interface. Unfortunately, I have two nephews who have had to live their childhood through all of this. For several years after the divorce, I was my brother's crying towel, as he broke up with one woman after the next and went through periods of extreme anxiety and depression, that quickly disappeared when he started dating a new woman. The crying towel no longer happens since I put a stop to it after I saw the pattern and realized that it is never reciprocated for my life.

There is just too much to write and so many emotions. A couple months ago, I told both my brother and my father I did not want to interact or communicate with either one of them, unless it was an emergency. There were incidents that precipitated this. My closest friend and the only friend who has offered any sort of attention to the dysfunctional mess of my family, moved half-way across the country and I suddenly feel completely isolated and alone with the neediness of both my father and brother. My initial response and reaction was panic and I think that is part of the reason I have pushed my father and brother away. My brother also approached me with another infidelity situation that appears to have the potential to jeopardize his job position. I just couldn't deal with him and being a crying towel again when I was already feeling so alone myself. I have not spoken with my father for over three months, my brother for two months. The conflicting emotions and feelings are intense. I have a psychotherapist who I have seen consistently during the last few years and I am planning to start visits again since the isolation with all of these issues feels overwhelming.

I appreciate the articles you have written because they deal with the feelings of rage and forgiveness...I still struggle with both of these tremendously. Friends, and even my closest friend who moved, do not seem to grasp the intensity and depth of how this has affected my life and has the potential to continue affecting it unless I am diligent about taking care of myself emotionally, spiritually and physically. I have often found myself saying, I can't do this alone, in regards to interacting with my ailing narcissistic father and self-absorbed brother. A close, understanding, non-judgmental friend seems such a necessity right now but nowhere to be found. I am signing up for yoga and meditation classes because these have been helpful in the past and I feel they could be key for helping me, with or without a close friend.

Thank you for having this forum. It helps to write about my situation and it helps me feel less isolated to hear other people's stories and your responses.

David

Hi David,
Thanks for sharing your story, I hope it helps to know you are not alone. Unless a person has been parented by a narcissist, they can never understand fully the systemic destruction that occurs which begins in childhood and continues until changes are made. So the child has no normal template against which to gauge what is right and not right. It's good that you are recognizing much of what is occurring. Your brother seems to have been influenced by having an NPD parent to the point where he is visibly affected and it's also good that you are setting boundaries with him. You are seeing a therapist so that is good -- your brother would benefit from one too but it is not your job to "fix" him. NPDs do not allow for healthy boundary development in their children as they have none themselves (hence your father will move in on his DIL) so it is up to the adult child to learn to set boundaries with not only their dysfunctional family member, but anyone who tries to impact on their lives. Sounds like you are doing this. Are you happy with going no contact? I have some articles on that issue as well. Keep up the yoga and anything else you felt helped in the past. Discuss your grief and anger with the therapist. The rage will come as a feeling of getting a raw deal but it helps to realize that you are dealing, in terms of your father, with a very young boy, who is incapable of giving and receiving love. NPDs are bottomless pits and they will distort your view of the world and of yourself. This is where therapy is helpful to identify what I call False Beliefs. Once these are dealt with, interacting or going no contact becomes easier with the narcissist in your life. If you feel you need additional help at any time you can always book a session on the main website.
Best wishes,

Beth

[David L]

Thank you very much Dr. McHugh for your helpful reply, suggestions and support. You ask if I am happy with the "no contact" approach and the honest answer is "no" at this point(as well as another period of time where I went no contact with my father only). I experience much turmoil especially since my father is not in good health and I don't know what has happened with my brother and his job situation. I have learned effective tools to set boundaries and put up emotional walls when interacting with both my father and brother, but it is not always easy to put those into practice "in the moment", and it makes family time feel like a war zone, in that I have to wear that kind of psychological armor and always be on guard. I've become exhausted dealing with this alone without any one else around for support, and going into family situations is always frightening and stressful regardless of the psychological tools I have. I think this is the reason for my recent retreat to no-contact since the one friend who I could confide with is no longer in close proximity and is very involved with her own recent life transition.

Thanks again for your understanding of the depth with which NPD can effect children and other family members…that approach alone is comforting and helps me feel less isolated with my experiences.

David L

[Beth McHugh]

Thank you very much Dr. McHugh for your helpful reply, suggestions and support. You ask if I am happy with the "no contact" approach and the honest answer is "no" at this point(as well as another period of time where I went no contact with my father only). I experience much turmoil especially since my father is not in good health and I don't know what has happened with my brother and his job situation. I have learned effective tools to set boundaries and put up emotional walls when interacting with both my father and brother, but it is not always easy to put those into practice "in the moment", and it makes family time feel like a war zone, in that I have to wear that kind of psychological armor and always be on guard. I've become exhausted dealing with this alone without any one else around for support, and going into family situations is always frightening and stressful regardless of the psychological tools I have. I think this is the reason for my recent retreat to no-contact since the one friend who I could confide with is no longer in close proximity and is very involved with her own recent life transition.

Thanks again for your understanding of the depth with which NPD can effect children and other family members…that approach alone is comforting and helps me feel less isolated with my experiences.

David L

Hi again David,
It's good that you have learned tools (armor as you so rightly call it) to deal with your father and also your brother, who seems to have developed problems of his own as a result of his NPD parenting. Keep up the therapy as you need to let this stuff out == it's too much to keep on board on your own, particularly as you have gone no contact more through short-term self preservation than through real choice, and this would be causing you extra pain. The other thing to realise is that your father, and any person with a personality disorder, has not reached all the developmental milestones that is the norm throughout childhood and adolescence, so you basically dealing with a very young child trapped in the body of an adult. That is why NPDs do so much damage to their children -- they look like adults but have the empathy levels and emotional depth of a very young child. That is why they cannot be supportive, can be very demanding and hurtful and don't seem to "get it" when you try to reason with them about some of their behaviors. And they cannot change, so you must. I often tell clients with narcissistic parents " a crocodile is a crocodile" meaning that you have to learn that crocodiles act in certain ways and we are wary of them, but to expect love and acceptance off them no matter now many tidbits we feed them is not something we would do with a crocodile. It's the same with narcissists but accepting your parent can never give you the love you deserve is so very hard. But once that acceptance is made, things do change for the better. Please feel free to keep chatting if that helps.

Best wishes,
Beth