What about Narcissistic Fathers?

[cheech]

My father is an 85 year old NP. I thank all of you (especially Beth) for your posts - they have helped me and my 11 siblings immensely. Dad is the image of the aging narcissist and is pulling out all of the stops, reverting to past, obnoxious behaviors to "up the ante" to get attention. He has spent so much time in the hospital (rotating between hospitals, as well) over the past years and we can never get a straight answer on his health issues. He refuses to sign a HIPA waiver for any of us, has not signed a power of attorney for his health and becomes very angry when confronted on the issue. His health is declining and he is receiving some assistance from state agencies in Florida. His wife is clearly suffering from dementia, and he has been VERY abusive (verbally) toward her (he's losing her, his last audience member).

Over the years, he has focused much of his ire on his four daughters (of which I am one). He has barfed so much mean-spirited and hateful rhetoric on us over the years, that we have all but eliminated him from our lives. When I do contact him, the conversation is so stilted and difficult because I cannot be myself with him. I have now settled on sending letters (he disabled his email) and gifts at the appropriate times as my only source of communication. However, now that his health is dwindling and his wife has lost her usefulness to him, his attention is now focused on what his daughters could or "should" be doing for him. He has even asked my brothers to contact us. I cannot do this and they support me.

Okay, so here's the issue in a nutshell: How do we (brothers & sisters) handle a parent, who chose to move to Florida (another Nirvana episode) while we all live in IL; who has embelished and lied so much - and won't accept help? He expects us to fly to Florida for each hospitalization ("I'm on my deathbed" or "you better call me, because I'm dying"), and yet when others have, he either sees them for 15 minutes and goes to bed, or tells them that he is unable to see them at all. He and my step-mother are currently receiving aid/help from the state and people of these agencies are checking on them daily. We, of course, are not able to receive any truthful information, due to their right to privacy and his refusal to sign HIPA forms. At what time will we know whether this is another grand manipulation on his part or the "real deal"?
Thanks for reading - I could go on, as you all may know.
Cheech

[Beth McHugh]

Hi Cheech,
I'm sorry that you have to go through all this turmoil at the hands of your NPD father. Unfortunatley this is the lot of the adult child of a narcissist until such time as you refuse to play the game. Refusing to play the game can take a lomng time to acheive as you have to let go of ever wanting to be loved for yourself. This is part of the therapeutic process that all victims of narcissits have to go through to really experience freedom form their sticky grasp.

As for your question as to how do you know when your father is serious and when he is playing for attention -- you don't. Sadly, he has played the boy who cried wolf card too amny times and eventaully all of you children will be totally sick of his manipulations. The narcissit hursts people but at the end of their lives they do become sad people as they struggle to maintain the power they have always weilded in an increasingly uncontrollable world.

If you can successfully extricate yourself from your father emotionally, then you will no longer be quite so affected by his behaviors. And try to let him take responsibility for his actions. If he won't give out power of attorney, keep firmly planted in your mind that ultimatley that is his problem, not yours.

Hope this helps!

Beth

[cheech]

Dear Beth:
Thank you for your kind and supportive words...and you are right, my Dad owns his behavior. Good words to hear.

The beat goes on. Since they haven't been answering their door and accepting the help of outside agencies, HRS has been called in. They have been told if they don't comply, the police will be called in to help HRS transport them to facilities to ensure their safety. My Father has been making threatening phone calls to my siblings, convinced that this is the result of his lying children - a grand conspiracy. I anticipate a call from the State Police/HRS before the New Year - and yet I feel very calm about this. At least they'll be safe.

Thank you, again. Your site has been such a valuable tool for all of us.
Cheech

[cheech]

Dad (NP) was on a role over the holidays. In and out of hospitals and horrible to healthcare workers. Holidays always spike his already dramatic personality "quirks". He won't sign the HRS papers in order for them to file a report about his (and stepmother's) current living situation (which would expose their inability to care for themselves). Remaining players (2-brothers) were very abused by Dad over the 3 weeks. I think they finally get it after Dad's "I'm dying, call me" phone message; only to find out the next day that he was fine and didn't need our emergency attention. When questioned about his emergency call, he responded "well, I felt that way yesterday, but I'm better today. I'm probably going to feel like that again, so I guess you should expect more phone calls like that." My brothers were stunned at the admission without any apology. I was not.

Since I have gone NC with my Dad, is it possible to support my brothers without being involved? Does listening to Dad's nonsense constitute still being involved? I have just been reiterating the characteristics of a NP and telling them not to fall for manipulations (kind of "picking them up and dusting them off"). My main concern is to not allow my Dad's inflammatory statements to divide us as siblings.

I still care about the welfare of these two old people, but I cannot listen to the lies - how do I help while staying out of the fray?

Thanks for listening/reading,

Cheech

[Beth McHugh]

Hi Cheech,
All you can do to help your brothers is to try to educate them about NPD. Perhaps if you direct them to this site to read the articles and all the forum posts on Familes which accompany them, they might see the similarlities there.
Beyond that, there is really nothing more you can do. If they will not educate themselves or cannot beleive that this is what is wrong with your father, then you have done all you can.
If they believe it, then it will be easier for you. However, if they don't you can still remain friends and be on good terms but you would have to draw a line in the sand and not listen to them complaining about your father. Otherwise you are still connected to the toxicity.

It's much like the situation where a marriage has broken down but the adult children still see the husband but come running back to their mother to "tell tales" about Dad's bad behavior. There really has to be an agreement that if someone chooses to have contact with a person and another doesn't, then it is not fair for the first to complain to the latter person, when the latter has detached themselves from the situation.

Hope this helps,
Beth

[cheech]

Thanks for your reply. I think I get what you're saying. Your analogy was a great illustration of how I'm staying in the fray by listening to the stories about my Dad. However, my bros. aren't complaining about him as much as updating all of us so that we are all on the same page (because he lies so much). With your help, I'm seeing how to communicate more accurately with them in order to separate myself from the drama portion (an old, bad habit, I must admit). That old drama sure gets the blood pumping doesn't it? Darn it, sucked in again!

I'm thinking my bros are gaining on the understanding part of NPD and are still in contact to help my Dad/stepmother in an emergent situation. It's kind of like they are in the adolescent stage of understanding NPD, but are approaching maturity in their understanding. They've started to use 3rd parties (state/local authorities) to communicate with, instead of with my Dad, to get the story straight. Small steps toward complete awareness. I used to be where they are now and my heart goes out to them. I guess I have get out of the way in order for them to "get it".
I've given them the website information, but being male offspring of a Narcissistic Father, they are a bit bull-headed. I'll keep telling them, until they do it or stop contacting me - whichever comes first. I'm hopeful for them.

Thanks for challenging me and making me think straighter,

Cheech

[Beth McHugh]

Hi Cheech,
Congratulations! You've done the adult responsible thing and now it is up to your brothers to decide what to do with that information. It still will be hard for you to stay completely detached, but at least you have drawn a line in the sand that you can refer to when you need to not get caught up in the ongoing family saga.
It is hard to walk the line between being humane and staying sane, but your sanity always comes first!

Sadly you father is working towards the "boy who cried wolf" scenario and he really can't afford to keep doing this at his age.

Best,
Beth

[cheech]

Yahoo! Another crisis and I used the tools you gave me. Amazing! No irritation and no getting roped into the drama. I stayed out of the fray and it felt (and feels) really good! It was a good day.
Cheech

[Beth McHugh]

Good on you Cheech! Nothing so sweet as staying detached form a narcissitic encounter!

Beth