Should you go "No Contact" with the narcissist in your life?

[Beth McHugh]

This is a question clients often ask me during therapy and it is one that only the client can answer as it is the client who has to be comfortable with the new situation. For some people, it is the better solution to a difficult problem, for some it is not a viable solution at all.

I have written an article on this topic that readers may find useful. You can find it at http://youronlinecounselor.com/Articles ... arent1.htm

Best wishes,
Beth

[mariagirl123]

hi beth, I have come across your site and am just starting to educate myself in this whole area of dealing with a narcisstic personality. I can relate to alot of the points you have made but in particular how most narcissists don't seek help but those who are close to them are the sufferers. When these people are 'family', there has been already a complicated emotional lifetime relationship and its hard to see the wood for the trees sometimes because I often do feel guilty about trying to go through my 'no contact' phases with my sister.
In brief my sister is 47 and eldest in family, I am 45 but have always been seen as the 'sensible' one, and taken on the role of 'eldest'. My sister from an early age was always a dramatist and we all got caught in with her dramatic relationships, drawn into her fantasy world of how these relationships should be, and collectively dissappointed/aggrieved about the variety of people who bullied her, left her, were jealous of her etc. Basically everyone else was to blame, she was the victim. Now I am beginnng to see how the problem has often been her and her unrealistic view of how the world should be to her. My life has often been distracted by her ongoing emotional crisises and we as a family are all drained by her and fed up of her but ultimately concerned about her.
Yes, as much as I try to separate myself now that I am very happily married with my own children, I still find it hard to 'separate' myself from her life. She has been going through a bitter separation the last 7 years, her own 2 young children have also grown tired of her selfishness and constantly blaming their dad for everything (he's domineering and controlling character). They now are living with their dad which has been a huge blow to her. Every family event has been clouded over because of some drama going on with her separation and as a family we really have begun not to enjoy these gatherings and have become more distant from each other. She has been suffering with depression for years also and constantly finds her life difficult financially, emotionally. I have tried to find her good counsellors, but she disengages after a few sessions as 'they are useless and don't tell her what to do'! We often argue and then there is no contact and usually its me that makes first move which I am now doing less of!
Underlying my difficulty in separating from her is that she may actually harm herself because she has made such a mess of her life so far. So yes, I have been sucked into feeling responsible for her and her happiness. I believe she is lazy in her life as well as having low self-esteem but she does have a belief that we all should be helping her in a neverending way as we are 'family'.
My mother also had mental health problems and they are alike in ways in terms of finding it difficult to show affection, get angry quickly if they feel 'attacked' by others, have never maintained a close and sustaining friendship with anyone! Constantly feel I have to walk on egg shells around her, dread her calls, feel sick in my stomach before I call her as don't know what 'situation' is now going to be presented to me. She can be very nice and I 'unfold' when she is like that because I want our relationship to work but I am beginning to realise it may never be the way I would like. Simple things, meeting for coffee, having laughs, shopping together. We do none of that and I get alot of my 'sisterly' needs through good friendships with others. Its so emtionally consuming when such a family member with this type of personality is in your family. I have often seen it as the 'cuckoo' in the nest!!! Yet I feel terribly guilty when I am enjoying my time with my husband and children and think that she is alone in her life. I can't fix it, I know.
But how can I fully enjoy my life without guilt, enjoy what I have gained in my life and what I have worked hard for? I don't tell her about things I buy etc as there is always 'oh I could do with that but can't afford it.....'. I have to remind myself she is 47 but really its like dealing with a needy teenager with tantrums!
How can I draw a line around myself and keep my sense of my life separate from her's. Enjoy living in my own life, keep a 'compassionate distance'! is it possible. She has created the world around her that she dreaded ie no friends, people backing off from her after a while, being alone and it breaks my heart. She has hurt me so many times and I really can't let myself be hurt again.
I don't know if you can give me any pointers or an image I can keep in my head when I am dealing with her so not get so affected by her??? I didn't mean for this to become such a long post but there is another symptom of how much time it takes to explain all the different aspects of how such a person has impacted on another person's life!
keep up the good work and I will continue to read with interest.

[Beth McHugh]

Hi Maria, it sounds like you are at least half way there in protecting yourself against your sister's behaviors in that you been able to step back a bit from her dramas and see that she is the one with the problem, unlike your ealier life when you and your family were caught up in her world and believing her all the time. By the sounds of what you say about your sister, I am not convinced she actaully has NPD -- she could have another personality disorder. I say this because she has attended therapy and narcissists are reluctant to do this as there is never anything wrong with them, it is always the other person whio ha the problem. Also she seems a little overdramatic to be a true NPD. It would be useful for you to know exactly what is wrong with her. If you like I can do a diagnosis by proxy. Dealing with a narcissist is particularly difficult because of the degree of nastiness that a person is subjected to when you don't do what the narcissist wants. Your mother may have contributed to your sister's difficulties aas well -- do you enjoy interactions with her? Is she a problem in your life?
In terms of dealing with your sister, if she has got NPD you will need to set very firm boundaries with her in order to feel any sense of your own control. If she has another type of personality disorder, it will not be quite so difficult, that is why I am interested in discerning just exactly what your sister has. The guilt problem is one that will gradually go away once you understand more fully what is wrong with your sister and how you are not responsible for her life, no matter how much she may try to place that upon you. You will need to work on seeing her as a separate person to you, as she has spent a lifetime dragging you and others into her dramas and now it's time to let her deal with her own self-made problems. This will be difficult as you have be trained to be there! And she reinforces the idea of the "family". Maria, I'm not sure she has NPD,the suicidal gestures are another sign -- she seems to be in too much pain to be a narcissist. Let me know if you are interested in determining what might be wrong, in the meantime, as she is open somewhat to therapy, I would encourage her to go to one whenever she tries to get you to help her. Simply be honest and tell her it is out of your league -- and that you neleive having another go at therpay would help. Without further information about your sister, this is the best I can do! Best wishes, Beth

[jes1964]

I went "No Contact" with both my sister and my mother, off and on, for years. Finally, about 5 years ago I just couldn't take the manipulation, the lying, the blame, the unreasonable expectations that had resulted in a complete lack of my own life and cut off my sister....and soon, thereafter, my mother.
Although I'm still struggling to learn how to have my own life after decades of being attacked and harshly criticized for doing anything - and I mean anything - for myself, my life is 99.9% better than it ever has been. Choosing to not deal with these two people has made the entire world so much brighter!
It was not a hasty or easy decision to make, but it was definitely the right one. My eyes were opened to the dynamics of the games my sister was playing in 1998 - I tried until 2006 to set boundaries and have my own life, but she made it clear that it was essentially "her or me." I could not do anything in my own life - not a movie, not an evening out with friends, not a stay at home day reading or doing errands - without paying for it by hearing from my sister how selfish I was, often and forever - sometime for years, years. Never mind the hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars I spent on her and her family, she would literally tell me I "owed" her equal time for any time I spent doing anything on my own, other than work. When I tried to tell her how unreasonable that was, of course, it was all my fault - according to her, I was the most selfish person in the world, "everyone says it," was obnoxious and harsh to be around, 'everyone walks on eggshells around you," and I was her family and owed her support.
What kept me connected for so much longer than I should have was the fear of losing other people - my niece and nephew, some mutual friends, and other family members. I did lose some of them - my niece and nephew were too young at the time to communicate with independent of my sister. I tried to keep touch with them, but just the few seconds of hearing my sisters voice in person or machine, literally made me throw up for years. I decided not to put myself through that - I finally got past the point of physical sickness at the thought or sound of my sister. However, in some interactions with my niece - who was by this time a teenager, I immediately recognized NPD traits - after I had spent two entire days doing anything and everything she wanted to do while she was staying with me, we were settling down to watch a movie of her choice, one we both had watched numerous times, and I picked up a magazine to read. She immediately put on this super hurt look, "You're not going to watch the movie with me?" I replied that I was going to sit right there by her but wanted to relax by reading. She then said, "I've been here two days and you've not spent any time with me." I about lost it - I'm proud of myself for keeping control - but I told her that was a lie, she knew it, and I would not tolerate her lying and manipulating like her mother. Her little eyes got as big as platters, but for me it was the first validation I had received that all the mess with her mother had not been in my head - here it was being repeated. Now, whether or not my niece is NPD too or is just acting like she's seen her mother act, i don't know. Every encounter with my niece since has had some elements of NPD behavior and although I love her and ache for the loss of the relationship we could have had, I will not ever maintain a relationship with a NPD person again.
On the other hand, my sister's "best friend"- a woman she's been friends with for about 25-30 years, but has only been to her house 3 times - has become even closer to me than before. We had become friends through the years - after my sister married in 1992, her friend and I had more in common since we were both single people. As the years progressed and she and I both remained unmarried and saw our hopes of having a family fade, our bond grew. Actually, now that I think about it, we became much much closer in 1999, the year after my eyes were opened, and I started setting better boundaries with my sister - she did NOT like that much, but that was one of the first things I detached about and just didn't care what she thought. After I broke off contact with my sister, this friend of course knew something was wrong between us. I very nervousily "came out" to her - it felt like that much weight - about how my sister had been treating me all these years. This fabulous woman completely validated me - she never witnessed the horrible things my sister said, she's far too manipulative to do it in front of anyone else, but she had seen and experienced enough to know immediately that what I said was true. She continues to be one of my closest friends. I have thought long and hard of her long relationship with my sister and have come to the conclusion that it works only because this friend is one of those people who chooses to see the best in everyone - one of her best traits! - and she very carefully keeps her distance. All the years I was in torture staying with my sister at family events, it never dawned on me to come and just stay 20-30 minutes like this friend always does! Maybe that would have changed the course of events or maybe not.
Marie -So, only you can decide when you have had enough. Your narcissist will never change - I've wasted decades of my life in the dark twisting and turning trying to appease them. It will never happen.
My advise is to go with your gut. Life is too short to keep these people around. Nothing, and no one, is worth it.

[Beth McHugh]

Hi Jes,
Thank you for sharing your story with us. It's so wonderful that you have been able to break away from your sister and see her for how she really is. And, yes, life is too short to be manipulate, hurt and ridiculed by people such as your sister. It is so much more difficult if you have an NPD mother or NPD adult chidl, the bond is so much stronger and harder to break. But your sister has stepped in you for the last time and how ironic that her best friend is now yours! It is a shame that you have lost your niece and nephew, but like with any dysfunctional family unit, sometimes as you did, you just have to save yourself. You sound strong and determined and can now recognise narcissistic traits and can choose to avoid those people. Congratulations!
Best wishes,

Beth

[BKiddo]

Hi Beth! I'm new to this and the info you give is SO helpful! I'm trying to make it no contact with my NPD mom..to the point of deactivating fb. I have not responded to any of her incredibly nuts emails (including then one where she said she was warranted in treating to pull her gin on myself and my husband). My aunt and grandma are even telling her to leave me alone and still with fair regularity (every 1.5-2 weeks) every inbox I have gets blown up with the most hateful things I've ever heard..and considering my childhood that's saying a lot. I don't want to go to the law but I'm afraid I will have to get a restraining order to get her to leave me be...what do you think?

[Beth McHugh]

Hi Beth! I'm new to this and the info you give is SO helpful! I'm trying to make it no contact with my NPD mom..to the point of deactivating fb. I have not responded to any of her incredibly nuts emails (including then one where she said she was warranted in treating to pull her gin on myself and my husband). My aunt and grandma are even telling her to leave me alone and still with fair regularity (every 1.5-2 weeks) every inbox I have gets blown up with the most hateful things I've ever heard..and considering my childhood that's saying a lot. I don't want to go to the law but I'm afraid I will have to get a restraining order to get her to leave me be...what do you think?

Hi BKiddo, Thanks for posting! The first thing to do is read up on going No Contact, there are articles on NPD family members and going NC which you can access by going back to the main website using the link above. It's really important too that you establish for certain that your mother actually has NPD and not some other condition. Not infrequently clients come to me convinced their parent/sibling/spouse has NPD and that isn't always the case. It's important to know because the manner in which you interact with or even extract yourself from the problem person is different.

There are pros and cons to going NC, and pros and cons to actually formally going NC (i.e. the other party knows about it). For some people going NC does not work well for them, for others it is the best thing they ever did. The latter depends on whether you are doing it for the right reasons. Also the emotional damage inflicted by a parent with NPD or another personality disorder is best addressed prior to going NC. After all, just because an NPD parent dies doesn't mean everything is all good again. The scars need to be healed in either case.

As a psychologist, I can't advise you what to do, that has to come from you so that you know you are making the best decision for you. In either case, strong boundaries will have to be set and put in place to help you deal with your mother. But if you feel you need help at any time sorting out the best move for you and what that would look like in a practical sense, contact me to book a session. Whatever you decide, I hope it all works out for you!

Best wishes,

Beth

[BKiddo]

Thank you so much!! I believe truly that no contact is the only way...I've since posted a cliff notes version of what I've been through with her and though I believe God works miracles sometimes, as of right now she is completely irrational and there is no reasoning with her..she can't even face what she has said and done yesterday never mind my whole life. I will definitely consider that she may not be NPD..the biggest reasons I'm certain is my aunt think so too (she's a social worker) and having grown up with her and often researching her manifestations, I'm certain if its not NPD its BPD...I'm no doctor bit call it a gut instinct. I will definitely do the reading and there is a specialist in my area we are makj g an appointment with next week.
No contact is scary for me...mainly because I'm so sad about losing dad...he is a classic enabler..but hes still my dad and I miss him terribly..but she has him warped so badly he wants nothing to do with either my brother or me..it all has to go through her before its OK. I want to believe that we can come back from it but I am so hurt and co fused by the complete and utter hatred she expresses to me that I just can't take it anymore..not and remain whole. Thank you for caring and for giving me helpful info..it makes me feel a lot better knowing g that even a complete stranger cares and understands

[Beth McHugh]

Thank you so much!! I believe truly that no contact is the only way...I've since posted a cliff notes version of what I've been through with her and though I believe God works miracles sometimes, as of right now she is completely irrational and there is no reasoning with her..she can't even face what she has said and done yesterday never mind my whole life. I will definitely consider that she may not be NPD..the biggest reasons I'm certain is my aunt think so too (she's a social worker) and having grown up with her and often researching her manifestations, I'm certain if its not NPD its BPD...I'm no doctor bit call it a gut instinct. I will definitely do the reading and there is a specialist in my area we are makj g an appointment with next week.
No contact is scary for me...mainly because I'm so sad about losing dad...he is a classic enabler..but hes still my dad and I miss him terribly..but she has him warped so badly he wants nothing to do with either my brother or me..it all has to go through her before its OK. I want to believe that we can come back from it but I am so hurt and co fused by the complete and utter hatred she expresses to me that I just can't take it anymore..not and remain whole. Thank you for caring and for giving me helpful info..it makes me feel a lot better knowing g that even a complete stranger cares and understands

Hi again,
Yes, it is possible your mother has another disorder and BPD would be considered the next to be considered. I'm glad you are getting onto it next week, being the adult child of a narcissist is one of the most difficult hands that can be dealt in life in terms of mental illness. It's much more subtle than schizophrenia for example and therefore much more insidious and harmful. However, you are now armed with more information. A I said, it is important to accurately discern exactly what your mother has as that will impact on how you deal with her/ withdraw from her. You have to do it in a way that gives you minimal pain. A direct cut-off without prior planning is not always successful, so plan carefully. You will have to go through a grieving period for your father, but also for your mother!

Call back in anytime to discuss how you get on. And it's my job to care and understand, but also a privilege!

Best,

Beth